Looking Stupid: Yo! What’s going on, how’s your day been?
Ben Rayner: Not bad. Recovering from some nasty food poisoning so taking it very easy. Usually I run every morning but today I just went for a short walk to stretch my legs. Other than that I have 3 pitches im working on pretty actively so busy
LS: You’re a very active commercial photographer, do your personal projects still scratch an itch? You’re nearly two decades into your career and well past that picking up a camera, ya?
BR: Yeh. I actually first picked up a camera when I was about 14 because I had a indie / punk fanzine so I needed photos to go with my interviews. Soon I figured I wasn’t a great writer at all so I just switched to photos.
To be honest tho I try to take my personal work sensibilities to all my commercial work even if it’s just a little bit. They are definitely different skills and one involves a lot of crazy management and decision making but at this stage the camera is an extension of my eye.
But yes it’s cool to do stuff just to do it
LS: You have told me that “perfect is the enemy of finished” do you still feel that way?
Did you ever have any governing philosophy around how you approach your work? How has it intensified or relaxed as time wears on?
BR: I believe that. Because what is ‘perfect’. I don’t feel like the intended audience will notice the tweaks. I tend to finish projects pretty quick and tweak them and generally your first instinct is usually correct.
It almost feels like second nature at this point to be honest. I suppose I am trying to convey honestly as much as possible.
LS: Isn’t honesty as conceptual as perfect? (typing this into the backend, I don’t think that this is true, but I did ask it -ed.)
BR: I suppose so but I almost thrive in moments I can’t control. I can Manipulate situations to get to a version of honesty but in reality what happens in front of me isn’t fully in my control. I like organized chaos.
LS: How do you find that in your work space now? The organized chaos
BR: Well in commercial work I am basically building a world in which things I want to happen CAN happen. Theres a lot of directing in getting people to certain places. I think that work can maybe look completely random but it’s for sure quite controlled to get to the moments that feel real.
As far as personal work it’s really rooted in documentary.
LS: Whats your methodology behind best figuring out what CAN happen in a professional setting?
BR: The professional jobs are basically like a movie half the time. So its hard to answer
LS: How so? The movie aspect. A hallmark is that your subjects look like they’re just hanging out with you, and having been shot by you it is kinda just that, what do you do when it’s sort of a bad hang?
BR: Bad hangs can happen in life. As well as on shoots. I make sure noone knows it was a bad hang 😉
LS: Your latest personal effort is a color photo zine around running, right? You’ve been a pretty dedicated runner for the past 5-10 years, is this your first non commercial work surrounding the sport?
Yes. I went to document NXN which is basically the olympics of cross country for high schoolers. It was in a park in Portland and it was really inspiring. This is the biggest day for those kids and I really hope to think I captured the emotion of it.
I’ve never published any personal work related to that.
LS: What made NXN the first thing that caught your eye after so long? You really are passionate about running, and tend to photograph what you love so it sticks out a bit
BR: I had never really seen people capture the DETAILS of that meet. It’s the biggest day of all these 17 and 18 year olds lives and it’s pretty pure and sweet. And seeing as im not really a ‘sports’ photographer I thought I could show a different side of it. I almost approached it like when I shot punk shows back in the early 00’s. I also decided to shoot film to stand out a bit. Im really happy how it came out
LS: You don’t really put much of your creative identity into the tools you use, what made film feel right for this project? How has your intentionality around what kind of gear you want to use for what thing changed over time?
Also, what attracted you to running in the first place? How did that relationship develop?
BR: No because to me the tool isn’t the thing for me. The connection is more important than what you used. One of my fave ever photos was taken on an old iPhone.
I was a hardcore film user for years but in reality it doesn’t matter. You can make crappy photos on film and digital.
This just felt like a nice way to make something timeless.
Running : I needed to get in shape after getting fat around 25. Ive been running off an on since 2010. I travelled so much it just seems the easiest thing to do in a new place.
LS: What was the iPhone photo, your favorite, what was it of?
BR: Lemme find the image
LS: While you’re looking – You got into ultra marathons a few years back, is that still something you’re interested in? What made you want to push yourself that far?
BR: Ive only really done one! And that was in Manhattan in covid. I really want to do a real one soon tho.
I dunno man the whole culture around that kinda has this sort punk dirtbag energy. A lot of the races are still very diy
LS: I guess I just equate you throwing out 20 milers on the weekly, not even a marathon, but the regularity was striking for a moment
BR: Yeh I was really running 20 miles once a week for a long time.
LS: Wait was the dirtbag energy attractive or not
BR: Yes! Feels very counter culture
Here’s the photo:
LS: What about this photo did it for you?
BR: I was coming back from a run and this dude was just chilling on a toy horse dressed as a cowboy.
LS: The counter culture thing – there seems to be a steep increase of that energy in running and fitness that has, at least in my silo’d internet experience, eclipsed that moment of “running clubs are the new dating app”
BR: Yeh I think people are desperate for connection to be honest so why not suffer with others.
LS: People being desperate for connection is a constant theme in these
BR: Well for people of our age who were born in the mid 80s we were the last people to grow up without the internet in our childhood. The internet was great for us when you just used it to find out about things but now you cannot escape basically being on your phone the whole time
LS: How do you balance it? You were one of the first people I knew who really set up their social media to be professional, you grew it with personality stuff then had and have a regular stream of work you’re always posting, does that wear on you at all? Even if it’s just part of the game
BR: Well my phone is set to shut off automatically at 8pm every day.
It’s just part of work to be honest. Thats why running and biking is good. Its genuinely 2 Horus a day when you don’t look at a screen.
LS: I wrote the introduction for your last book, “I’m a Million Different People from One Day to the Next” and it struck me after, do you find yourself with this much work now that there’s less editorial work to be done? What does it feel like to outlast things that felt like new institutions? I’m thinking of how you’d worked up to the point of shooting Vice covers with Shane MacGowen and the like
BR: Well the book work is all personal. I don’t generally shoot to ‘projects’ except the new zine and it’s just a lot of photos.
Yeh that’s weird. I started shooting for magazines when I was 21. I am not almost 41. And yes ive outlasted a lot of publications. That world is so different now. Magazines have about 10 percent of the pages that were around back then. There’s a lot less of that work going around to be honest and it only takes up 10-20 percent of my time these days. But I still love it. Im going to shoot a Swiss author later for a German magazine so it does still exist.
LS: Are you working on the next thing already? Do you usually know what you wanna do next?
BR: Oh man I dunno. Might go to France to shoot this legendary crazy corner of Tour de France.
I’m also doing a book of photos from 2003-7. Pretty fun to look back on
I always have some idea.
LS: What drew you to that specific corner of the tour, and what has stuck out to you, looking through that 4 year archive?
BR: I was doing some research. There’s a very famous mountain climb in the Tour de France called Alpe d’huez and there’s a famous corner called Dutch corner where it’s all Dutch people partying and going crazy. I’m just interested in people really and that seems like an interesting slice of life. People are obsessed with this. You know quite niche sport to us but it’s huge in Europe.
As far as the four year archive goes, there’s lots of people I’m still in contact with and that are still in my life. I’m gonna interview some people from that time. Possibly Dev Hynes and Graham, the singer from Hi Vis. It’s got a working title I don’t want to tell you, but it’s really just a snapshot of that time really and to me the years from like 18 or 16 even to maybe 22-24 really define your life.
LS: What do you feel when you look back at images from that time?
BR: To be honest, my approach hasn’t changed that much but things look the same but he also look very different. There’s no people holding their phones and I guess just a more innocent time but maybe that’s just being that young.
There is a launch for Ben’s new zine “Mud Sweat & Tears” tonight from 6-8 EST at BlankMag Books in NYC. 17D Eldridge St, NY, NY